Paul McCann: Last Night and Olympic Thoughts

Taylor Beck is continuing to light it up in Milwaukee, it does make you wonder when/if he will be called up. Beck is at a point per game over his last seven games with three goals and four assists.

- pmccann

Actually, it makes me wonder why we went out and acquired more 'grit' in the off-season which made it necessary to jettison him to Milwaukee. He earned his spot on the team last season. Poile's off-season moves were questionable then, and nothing has really happened to change that perception.

Imagine if Poile had kept Beck, acquired Grabovski off waivers, nabbed Stalberg in FA and signed a backup goalie with some experience. This team might look completely different right now.

Instead we have to be content with Beck in Milwaukee and Clune/Hendricks/Nystrom taking up roster space. (Yes, Nystrom had a nice start, but he's since disappeared)

I hope some trades are made which will, at the very least, allow us to bring up players from Milwaukee who deserve a look. I'd rather watch them than the current roster.

If Smith is valuable on the big ice (which he seemed to be), and Forsberg just won an MVP, then why do the Preds have such a hard time getting even moderate contributions from these guys? I've gone from asking if the Preds have the talent, to wondering if they know what to do with it. You have Smith, Jones, Weber, Forsberg, Josi - who have all shined in international competition. That's a quarter of the roster. And still...so little production?

For this year, I get it. Pekka's hurt. You probably have 4-5 games that Pekka could've flipped the other way - and the Preds are on the border of the playoffs where we expect them to be.

But in the bigger picture, how can those guys shine on the big stage, with other coaches and teams, and the Preds not figure out how to use them more effectively? Is it Trotz? Has GMDP not brought in the right complementary players?

What's your opinion on spaling vs Wilson vs smith? Who's most expendable?

Also is Watson ready for NHL? Any interest to trade Josi for offensive help?

Paul McCann: Last Night and Olympic Thoughts
- pmccann

You can be as sick of 'excuses' as you want, but there were none needed since the goaltender interference rule is pretty clear.

Nashville's 3rd goal shouldn't have counted when there's a defenseman laying on Niemi's leg & he can't move (regardless of whether or not the Predator being pushed into him. The Nashville d-man made zero attempt to move....

They got a late Xmas present from the referees plain & simple.

If Smith is valuable on the big ice (which he seemed to be), and Forsberg just won an MVP, then why do the Preds have such a hard time getting even moderate contributions from these guys? I've gone from asking if the Preds have the talent, to wondering if they know what to do with it. You have Smith, Jones, Weber, Forsberg, Josi - who have all shined in international competition. That's a quarter of the roster. And still...so little production?

For this year, I get it. Pekka's hurt. You probably have 4-5 games that Pekka could've flipped the other way - and the Preds are on the border of the playoffs where we expect them to be.

But in the bigger picture, how can those guys shine on the big stage, with other coaches and teams, and the Preds not figure out how to use them more effectively? Is it Trotz? Has GMDP not brought in the right complementary players?
- holycow_75

To me it looks like an issue with both. Trotz's system stifles offensive production in favor of defense. Poile has opted to go with the type of player that Trotz wants because they fit his system. Enter Nystrom, Hendricks, Clune, Gaustad etc. They opted to pass on Grabovski who is offensively talented in order to spend that money on this year's grit and sandpaper acquisitions.

On top of that you have the constant line changes which make it difficult to develop chemistry. This is not a recipe for playoff success. It might, MIGHT, get us into the 8th position, but we'll get bounced out of the first round again.

JMHO

If Smith is valuable on the big ice (which he seemed to be), and Forsberg just won an MVP, then why do the Preds have such a hard time getting even moderate contributions from these guys? I've gone from asking if the Preds have the talent, to wondering if they know what to do with it. You have Smith, Jones, Weber, Forsberg, Josi - who have all shined in international competition. That's a quarter of the roster. And still...so little production?

For this year, I get it. Pekka's hurt. You probably have 4-5 games that Pekka could've flipped the other way - and the Preds are on the border of the playoffs where we expect them to be.

But in the bigger picture, how can those guys shine on the big stage, with other coaches and teams, and the Preds not figure out how to use them more effectively? Is it Trotz? Has GMDP not brought in the right complementary players?
- holycow_75

First part of your question:
Its the system. D first and always. No offensive rush. Play D and change lines take priority over any offensive threat. Everyone knows his mantra & system. If you don't religiously play D you will be in the press box or sent down. Why does a team that struggles to score sign Ny & Hend and give them @ 15 min TOI? Even Horachek said it as he left.

Second part of your question:
Please do not make injuries an excuse for this team, and let me clarify. When the GM signs a #2 goalie with 1 NHL game as backup to the #1 goalie who is coming off major surgery....that is irresponsible management. Plain and simple. I think should be fired for. Therefore you CAN NOT use Peks injury as an excuse for this teams performance.

You can be as sick of 'excuses' as you want, but there were none needed since the goaltender interference rule is pretty clear.

Nashville's 3rd goal shouldn't have counted when there's a defenseman laying on Niemi's leg & he can't move (regardless of whether or not the Predator being pushed into him. The Nashville d-man made zero attempt to move....

They got a late Xmas present from the referees plain & simple.
- Team_Teal

3. A PLAYER PUSHES, SHOVES, OR FOULS ANOTHER PLAYER INTO THE GOALKEEPER, WHO IS IN OR OUT OF THE CREASE.
A. The attacking player, after having made a reasonable effort to avoid contact, makes contact with the goalkeeper at the time a goal is scored.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26557

If he was pushed, which appears to be, into the goalie while the goal was scored, it's still allowed.

It was a forward by the way, not a defenseman, doesn't matter either way though.

You can be as sick of 'excuses' as you want, but there were none needed since the goaltender interference rule is pretty clear.

Nashville's 3rd goal shouldn't have counted when there's a defenseman laying on Niemi's leg & he can't move (regardless of whether or not the Predator being pushed into him. The Nashville d-man made zero attempt to move....

They got a late Xmas present from the referees plain & simple.
- Team_Teal

For the purpose of this comment:

Rule 69.1

If an attacking player has been pushed, shoved, or fouled by a defending player so as to cause him to come into contact with the goalkeeper, such contact will not be deemed contact initiated by the attacking player for purposes of this rule, provided the attacking player has made a reasonable effort to avoid such contact.

You can make the argument that Wilson made no attempt to move, but you can also make the argument that he didn't have a chance to move because he was pushed and it was a bang bang play. Obviously the officials saw it this way.

And Paul is right. The is the second game in a row vs The Preds that the Sharks couldn't score their second goal until the last two minutes of the game. You don't know how things might have played out if that goal was disallowed. Maybe the Preds press harder and score another one anyway rather than going on the defensive and trying to protect a two goal lead.

It's an excuse, not a reason.

sick of excuses... maybe you should check out the rules when it comes to laying on top of a goalie in the crease and secondly.... how many sharks players are injured right now (a real excuse), SEE YOU IN THE PLAYOFFS IF YOU CAN MAKE IT THERE

sick of excuses... maybe you should check out the rules when it comes to laying on top of a goalie in the crease and secondly.... how many sharks players are injured right now (a real excuse), SEE YOU IN THE PLAYOFFS IF YOU CAN MAKE IT THERE
- svolheim

We already checked out the rules. Look two posts above yours. See how easy that was?

EDIT: I'm actually surprised Shark fans are showing such a lack of knowledge regarding this rule. You guys have been in the league a lot longer than the Preds. You shouldn't be relying on Preds fans to educate you.

We welcome a cogent discussion on the subject, but the whining is annoying.

Second part of your question:
Please do not make injuries an excuse for this team, and let me clarify. When the GM signs a #2 goalie with 1 NHL game as backup to the #1 goalie who is coming off major surgery....that is irresponsible management. Plain and simple. I think should be fired for. Therefore you CAN NOT use Peks injury as an excuse for this teams performance.


- buelleo

I'm not making an excuse. It's an absolute failure on Poile's part to not have a more NHL-ready backup. There is no way to get around that one. I'm thinking more along the lines of who are the Preds top players - guys anyone would want to have on any team. Of course, Pekka can't contribute. That was all I was saying about that because I think you have to look at Goalie impact in terms of the kinds of wins they can get you over the average guy.

But to the larger point, guys who shine in international competition are often future all-star type players. But even the guys other people WOULD want...Weber, Smith, Jones, Horny, Forsberg, Pekka...they seem to underperform on this team compared with what they might do on another team. It just seems other coaches or GM's wouldn't have such a hard time figuring out what to do with Smith, Forsberg, etc.

We already checked out the rules. Look two posts above yours. See how easy that was?

EDIT: I'm actually surprised Shark fans are showing such a lack of knowledge regarding this rule. You guys have been in the league a lot longer than the Preds. You shouldn't be relying on Preds fans to educate you.

We welcome a cogent discussion on the subject, but the whining is annoying.
- Predaceous

Go easy. The refs call this rule differently all the time. I saw Saku Koivu cross-checked into the goaltender head first earlier this year. He just brushed against him as he fell and as the puck went by. The ref called off the goal saying the goalie couldn't make a play on the puck. The rulebook isn't interpreted the same game to game, play to play, ref to ref. So give the battery chucking NoCals a break on this call.

We welcome a cogent discussion on the subject, but the whining is annoying.
- Predaceous

So is the "no excuses" garbage from the Nashville blogger. Stay classy...

So is the "no excuses" garbage from the Nashville blogger. Stay classy...
- Team_Teal

Well, you guys did play horrible and Preds play horrible many nights also. Someone up there is saying that the injuries with the Sharks is one of the reasons we won. You're team with injuries, still has more depth than Nashville, with no injuries. Also, playing against a team with one of the lowest offensive stats. Even the first meet up, we won 3-2, no injuries in your team at the time.

First part of your question:
Its the system. D first and always. No offensive rush. Play D and change lines take priority over any offensive threat. Everyone knows his mantra & system. If you don't religiously play D you will be in the press box or sent down. Why does a team that struggles to score sign Ny & Hend and give them @ 15 min TOI? Even Horachek said it as he left.

Second part of your question:
Please do not make injuries an excuse for this team, and let me clarify. When the GM signs a #2 goalie with 1 NHL game as backup to the #1 goalie who is coming off major surgery....that is irresponsible management. Plain and simple. I think should be fired for. Therefore you CAN NOT use Peks injury as an excuse for this teams performance.


- buelleo

Every part of this is right on the money. It is the system. It does no good to bring in snipers when the focus on those players will be to play D.

Well, you guys did play horrible and Preds play horrible many nights also. Someone up there is saying that the injuries with the Sharks is one of the reasons we won. You're team with injuries, still has more depth than Nashville, with no injuries. Also, playing against a team with one of the lowest offensive stats. Even the first meet up, we won 3-2, no injuries in your team at the time.
- alphakilo615

Look Up Torres oh and Burish, I think they play for us

Look Up Torres oh and Burish, I think they play for us
- svolheim

Look up Rinne. More important than either of them.

So is the "no excuses" garbage from the Nashville blogger. Stay classy...
- Team_Teal

Was he wrong? No he wasn't. You're just ticked because your team lost to a horrible Preds team, and injuries/refs are your excuse for your embarrassment.

Your team lost. Deal with it. The Preds didn't win because of injuries (which they had too) or the refs. They won because they were better for more than 2/3 of the game. That's how it goes sometimes.

I'm not making an excuse. It's an absolute failure on Poile's part to not have a more NHL-ready backup. There is no way to get around that one. I'm thinking more along the lines of who are the Preds top players - guys anyone would want to have on any team. Of course, Pekka can't contribute. That was all I was saying about that because I think you have to look at Goalie impact in terms of the kinds of wins they can get you over the average guy.

But to the larger point, guys who shine in international competition are often future all-star type players. But even the guys other people WOULD want...Weber, Smith, Jones, Horny, Forsberg, Pekka...they seem to underperform on this team compared with what they might do on another team. It just seems other coaches or GM's wouldn't have such a hard time figuring out what to do with Smith, Forsberg, etc.
- holycow_75

Do you think this is finally the time they think about firing Trotz? I think in the past we weren't selling out the arena and he was getting us to the playoffs so it was okay. Now we are selling out the arena most of the time and not getting to the playoffs. I feel the offseason was we'll sign the players Trotz wants and see if it changes anything. They've all played horribly plus they've blocked players like Watson and Forsberg. Jones in his first couple of games was shooting the puck a lot and now he seems to follow in with the rest of the lineup.

Players like Forsberg, Suter, Weber, etc have all played better on other teams or at the world level. Is Trotz style hampering their natural play or is it just the rigors of an 82 game season? I feel like the success that Peterson Horachek is having with the Panthers with less talent may be saying that this is all Trotz's fault because the same issues have plagued this team for years.

To me it looks like an issue with both. Trotz's system stifles offensive production in favor of defense. Poile has opted to go with the type of player that Trotz wants because they fit his system. Enter Nystrom, Hendricks, Clune, Gaustad etc. They opted to pass on Grabovski who is offensively talented in order to spend that money on this year's grit and sandpaper acquisitions.

On top of that you have the constant line changes which make it difficult to develop chemistry. This is not a recipe for playoff success. It might, MIGHT, get us into the 8th position, but we'll get bounced out of the first round again.

JMHO
- Predaceous

Agree with all above (and others' comments) that things have been far too stifled. I'm not sure where it will all lead and I remain somewhat optimistic for the long haul. There are bright spots here and there. Gotta love that three of the top players at the World Jrs (from Sweden & Finland) are our prospects.

However, I would like to maintain clarity on the Grabovski issue, as his player status did greatly effect the chances of him signing here.

For the Preds to have gotten him off of waivers, it would have cost them a lot. His remaining contract of $5.5m cap hit for four years with a $6m salary per for two seasons (13/14 & 14/15) followed by $5m salary per for the next two seasons (15/16 & 16/17) was not cheap. As a result of that and other possible mis-perceptions, none of the other NHL teams claimed him off of waivers so the Leafs bought out his contract and he was UFA. Caps then signed him to one season at $3m. He is again UFA after this season. Huge difference in a $3m liability vs one of $22m.